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Occasionally somebody would say: “I'm having a very difficult time, trying to find somebody for this particular job. If you know of anybody that could help me--” Or somebody will say: “I'm in trouble, and I don't know quite how to handle this situation. If anybody in the group can help me, I'd appreciate it.” Well, you don't get that help out of competitors; you get it out of people who are in similar businesses.

I don't know, with the proliferation of multiple companies--multiple brands and multiple activities--whether the Marketing Executive Society still operates or not. I haven't been involved in it now for many, many years. But I would guess that it's probably no longer in existence, simply because everybody was in everybody else's business and there's no way to lay your cards on the table and say, “I need help,” and have your competitor know that you're in trouble. So that, I think, has probably dried up. Nothing like that ever happened in AEA, although I know I have turned to people in AEA and said: “Gee, do you know anybody I could talk with in this particular area?” And if it's an area that the man to whom I'm talking has had experience, it's a valuable source of information.

What do you think the future of AEA is? Do you think it will continue to be a solid--

I'm very worried about it. I'm not sure that the torch will be passed from Carl Hess to the next generation.

Could you just describe him a little bit? The book does, but again it would be nice to have your description.