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of our money from the United Way, and that was a relationship that I found less than happy. And after I left the United Way did get into trouble on its fund-raising, and [William] Aramony, the man who ran the United Way, was ousted. We were the biggest piece of the United Way pie. I guess we got maybe as much as sixteen percent of that budget. That doesn't mean we didn't raise money on our own.

[E. Roland] Harriman, after World War II, agreed to become a part of the United Way, and I didn't find that a happy relationship. I would rather have raised our money independently-- totally independently. We did raise money independently, but a lot of the chapters in the Red Cross were supported almost exclusively by the local United Way. That meant that those people were dictating--

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Boy, you had enough internal troubles, let alone getting into troubles with the United Way. The reason the United Way was difficult was because there were tremendous demands made upon the United Way in the community and there were new charitable organizations serving the publics that wanted money from the United Way, and their “pie” wasn't getting bigger.

They wanted to take some away from other charities, and the Red Cross would come in for having to give up some of its money that it was getting from the United Way. Or the United Way said: “Well, if we're going to fund you, we're going to have a lot more to say about how you spend the money.” This became another political problem. So I would rather have been free of the United Way.