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I must say, I believe I'm on Ruth's side on that issue.

Oh, absolutely.

So it was hard for her, if she made a character judgment, a negative character judgment about someone, it was hard for her to tolerate the sociability issue.

The children of the eight or nine graduate students who were going through the mill at the same time--Half of them, I guess, had small children, and Ruth didn't approve of the way the mothers took care of the children at all. She felt they deserved much more time than they got. The mothers, in some cases, were doing graduate study at the time and the kids just got the back of their hand. She felt that if you were going to have a child you should spend as much time with that child as you had to in order to take care of its wants and its social and educational guidance. In fact, at one time, when we were first married, living in Jackson Heights, we kept a little book of all the things our parents did that we thought were wrong, in preparation for the time when we had children, and we could say, “Well, these are the things that annoyed us when we were kids.”

Well, I imagine I can't look at that book, but maybe you can recall two or three of the things that top the list?

No, I don't recall, but I know that the only other time I did anything like that was when I built the CBS Black Rock. I kept a journal of all the things that, if I were doing another building, I would do differently. Ralph [J.] Cordiner I think, who was then chairman of General Electric, knew I was doing that. He came over to see me one day and said he was