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over from Africa or something. Third world. But this was a period when someone from a foreign university was a curiosity more than anything else.

But I discovered when I got out of the college -- and now I'm jumping ahead -- but I discovered when I got out of college, in some curious way, and I've forgotten now quite how it came to my attention -- But either I heard or read something that suggested that the fraternity of which I was a member barred Jews. And this struck me as very strange because I had worked with Jews and Catholics and every religion you could think of in the department store.

Right.

And I believe the principal owners, although I'm not absolutely sure -- but I think the principal ownership of the store -- the equity came out of a very prominent Jewish family in Dayton. It struck me as very unusual when I discovered that the fraternity was making that bar -- well at Ohio Wesleyan.

What was the percentage in terms of --

At Ohio Wesleyan, I don't think -- You know, there weren't many Jews. They were all just nice white Methodists. And beautiful women. It was a co-education school.

But when I found out about, I wrote to the headquarters of the fraternity, the fraternity in question -- Phi Delta -- and it was, I guess, one of the most respected and sought after fraternities on the campus. It certainly had that reputation for many years as having the