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At the end of your third year.

Yes. In those days, if you did a three year pre-medic program and got along pretty well, you could apply to medical school and get in and your first year of medicine -- at the end of that you got your B.A. degree or your B.S. from your other, undergraduate school. And all my colleagues were all going off to school. I went to Michigan and applied and was admitted.

And what made you decide not to go?

Probably two things. The young first and second year medical members of graduate schools, medical schools, came back to fraternity for weekends from time to time, and I got to talk with about the workload and so forth -- I discovered I guess a little bit by osmosis that I wasn't going to be able to have the free hand to work the way I had as an undergraduate. And I didn't have the money. And I didn't want to burden my parents with asking for the money from them. Also, in those days you couldn't -- kids didn't borrow money. There were no grants or anything of that kind. Scholarships, a few here and there, but nothing like today. So after visiting Ann Arbor and spending a couple of weekends on the campus and talking both with people in the admissions office and also kids who were in school, I concluded that this was going to be a financial burden that I wasn't sure I could accommodate. In fact, I thought I could do it by staying away from school for a year and making what I thought would be a lot of money and then having enough to go.

The other force -- or influence -- not a force but the other influence, was that the girl that I mentioned earlier said that she didn't she wasn't very much in favor of me becoming a