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So, at that period in technology you put a piece of coated paper on a drum and then took a -- literally, a kerosene lamp. And smoked that drum and put a deposit of lamp cauldron on that white paper. And then the stylus that was either on the thoracic or abdominal recording instruments would sweep across that smoke and the paper moved at a constant speed and you got the recording of heartbeat and anything else that you could put an instrument on. That's probably where I got the idea that if you had something like that that you could use on a radio set, you could find out when the set was turned on and so forth.

So I got a -- again, something that I guess you probably saw when you were a child. Typewriter ribbons came on spools. Silk ribbons that you literally typed through. And I then thought if I had two of those spools and a piece of something that I could move at a constant speed, then I could record what happened when the switch was turned on the radio set.

Radio sets at that time were the size of small refrigerators. They were big boxes that sat in the living room. No one had a portable or anything of that kind. Portables were -- there weren't even car radios at that time. With a big piece of equipment you could put a little instrument in the back of the set and record over a long period of time exactly what people did and then get the tape out and look at it and question people, and see how what they remembered checked with what the hard record show. That was the beginning. That's how that whole thing began.

And I probably wouldn't have gone off in that direction if I hadn't had that period of doing a lot of work in the labs where I did a lot of recording of human behavior. One of the curious things that I think of now was that the same man that was interested in the lie detection