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program or the time period, the agency got fifteen percent on top of that as its fee. And we did not charge less if we went direct to the agent, we gave the advertising agency the fee because they were very important to us as a handmaiden, really, in getting advertisers to use the medium. But there were advertisers who came into radio who had done very little national advertising, either in magazines or newspapers.

But that was one service that we did -- both external -- through agencies and to clients -- and also to the Sales Department, because the Sales Department wanted to make the call. Frequently the salesmen who had a new account, or a potential account would ask the Research Department to prepare everything they could on what the advertiser was doing in the marketplace, what its competitors were doing not only in radio but in magazines and newspapers. I wanted to know as much about the potential client as -- I wanted to know more than anyone else knew. So I figured that if our salesmen could make a call on a potential client and say, “Here's some information about what's going on,” and the client saw things that he didn't know were going on because they didn't have the imagination, I guess, to find out, he would turn to the salesman and that would establish a bond that would, hopefully, grow into a sale.

What was the state of -- How did NBC compare to what you were at this point? Did they have a Research Department?

They were little boys.

They were little boys.