Session: 1234567891011121314151617         Page 102103104105106107108109110111112113114115116117118119120121122123124125126127128129130131132133134135136137138139 of 755

We didn't use the name. And I've forgotten what the transitional name was. But of course when we got close to, or when we were on speaking terms with Columbia, not with -- they weren't really underwriting anything at that point -- it became the Bureau of Applied Social Research. And it was housed on Amsterdam Avenue in I guess what was an old -- maybe it was a dispensary or a wing of the hospital or something, I'm not sure what it was.

But Paul by that time had picked up a lot of kids who were interested in what he was doing. He was a magnet for bright, young students.

Now up until this point you had survived on the money from the Rockefeller -- Was the money from the Rockefeller Foundation still there?

Well, we were beginning to -- That's another thing about Paul. Paul could take your dollar and some outside contacts and end up with $5.75. He always had places where he thought he could get money to put with money and have enough to do what he wanted to do. So Rockefeller money became almost seed money at that point. And if it hadn't run out it was about to run out. My memory is faulty on that point.

But it was moved to a building owned by Columbia University, but not a part of Columbia University; it was just an empty building that they had.

Paul took the name of, I believe, the Bureau of Applied Social Research and formalized it by setting up a board. I was a member of the board. Meanwhile, Hadley was totally out of the picture. And Paul invited some people on the board. I've forgotten who they were. Lyman