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as a little boy. But because I was in a medium that he recognized as being influential and I was moving up in that medium, I think he looked pretty much at me sideways and not down. He certainly didn't look up. And I don't think I looked up in his case either except we each -- if he knew something that I didn't know, I called him and he sure as hell called me, so -- We never traveled together, I don't think we ever made a trip any place together. All of our social relations were in the framework of either his Vienna friends who were in the field closer to psychoanalysis than they were to my field. But they all had to with the research at hand, not with anything other than that.

I know when “Oklahoma” opened -- this is a deviation -- when “Oklahoma” opened, and I had seen some of the rehearsals, and I thought it was something that this strange guy from Vienna ought to know about, I took Paul to the opening of “Oklahoma”. So we did have some breakouts socially but for the most part, because Ruth had not any fondness for Paul, there wasn't any way to mix socially.

To go back a little to the impact of this work, or even just to your work at CBS at this point, you said earlier that you were beginning to do some work about predicting the value of certain programs.

The value?

Predicting the success. Excuse me.

Okay. Big difference.