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and I didn't want to leave, because I just was very worried about him. He took me into his wife's bedroom. It had never been touched since the day she died. It was a grim experience. So I knew him. I knew the man reasonably well or he wouldn't have embraced me the way he did.

Sarnoff had the vision, but Folsom had the operating skill. And Folsom really made it work for RCA. No question about it.

He cut me off at the pass, in terms of set manufacturing. Although, at one point said to me, “Look, if you want to get into the manufacturing business, I'll show you how to do it --”

Wow.

“--and I'll help you and I'll give you some business.” And so forth. So it was a --

--very interesting--

--strange kind of relationship that I had with him.

There was a third party to my friendship with Folsom. And indeed, I guess the way I came to know him was that Elmo Roper -- and I think I mentioned my experiences with Roper earlier, about going into the polling business with him and so forth -- Roper and Folsom were friends from before the war. I don't quite remember how they came together, but I met Folsom through Roper. And knew him before he went to RCA. He was still at the War Production Board at the time I knew him. A real powerhouse, no question about it.