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I don't know what this is. You'd better cut that.

[PHONE INTERRUPTION]

That's very interesting to know that there was that kind of connection between you and Folsom, in terms of what was happening at RCA.

Well, we fought like tigers in the courts and embraced each other in private.

What was happening with the FCC at this particular time, around the end of the war? Had color been approved on an experimental basis?

I don't recall whether we were doing anything at this particular time or not. But shortly thereafter, Goldmark then came up with his color system.

Was that on UHF or VHF?

UHF. The reason it was on UHF was there was not enough band width in the spectrum to handle his system where VHF was. And VHF only accommodated, in total, thirteen channels. And you could only use every other one in any -- that's an oversimplification -- but roughly every other one in a given community, and they're not all contiguous. Two through six, I believe, is one block and then seven through thirteen is another block. So you can have six and seven in the same community. But for the life of me,