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No, he didn't come the first year. Thank God he didn't. It would have been a different center. Paul was a strong personality, a brilliant person -- It would have been a different center and he came, I believe, the third year, but I'm not sure. And I've omitted one of the strong members of the board, who was Paul's -- It isn't fair to call him an understudy -- but Bob Merton, a sociologist at Columbia --

Sure.

Bob was on the board of the Center. Strong board member. And so, in a sense, Paul knew what was going on. And Paul did spend a year there. So did Bob Merton's friend [Harriet Zuckerman] -- now I can't think of her name -- and she's now on the board. Sociologist. You probably know who I'm talking about and I can't --

I'm blocking the name as well but I'll think of it.

Okay. No. Paul would have structured it, and we had a knock down -- Paul and I had a private talk about that, never bitter or anything, I mean, he took one position and I took another. I'm much less a structured person for meetings than I think my European colleagues are. I think if you run a meeting like you set up a code for a Hollerith card or a punch card where you have to provide for all the possibilities beforehand, sometimes I wonder whether you need the conference or the meeting. I like to get bright people together and as long as you have a broad subject area that you're trying to discuss, I don't like to see it too highly organized or structured. I used to say when I had a different desk than I've got here, if you put a steel ball bearing on the surface of the desk and the desk was a marble slab, the ball bearing, or the ball could roll in any direction with equal efficiency. And in fact