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there are some people, if you can afford them in an organization, who can bring a lot to an organization if they have that kind of freedom. But that's another subject.

But this was a conviction actually that you brought to the founding of the Center from your work at CBS, or your work in a corporation where --

No, I don't know where it came from.

You don't know where it came from.

No. The argument is you lose a lot of time by not having a structured agenda. On the other hand, if you got the right people who bring a rich experience and wisdom to the meeting, you frequently get more than you anticipate out of any advanced planning. So it's a trade-off. But if I had to run a meeting today, a board meeting, I don't run it on an open ended agenda, I damn well have a scheduled agenda. I don't want to give you the impression that it's a free-wheeling affair. But for things such as the center represented, no one has the -- in my opinion then nor now, has the skill or the wisdom to say: This is what we're going to do. If you get a collection of bright people, and you can achieve any kind of focus during the discussion, you can, I think, get rich dividends. And if you're going to spend a year, let the people find their own way through the things they want to talk about or give their time to, and don't try to say, this is what it's going to be.

To a certain extent, the Center pre-ordained the direction of the year by the concept of clusters.