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something I wanted to talk about. In talking about something urgent that I wanted to be sure he knew about, I might cover twenty other things as the conversation expanded. That's all. There was nothing in the way of any formal -- either in writing or in oral reporting. I started having staff meetings. I don't remember when I had the first one. I ran the company pretty much with the two guys that I worked with during the war. I later learned that they had gone to Kesten prior to the end of the war and said that I should be the man to run the company. They never said anything to me. In fact, I always thought that Frank White was competition, in the sense that he was always trying to move in on areas that I thought were clearly delineated as mine. This is in the period when I was running the company stations and so forth. I really didn't think much about it, because in my mind, when Paley came back from the war, I assumed that Kesten would be made -- as he had been -- chief executive or executive vice president; that Kesten might be designated as president and that Paley would assume the title of chairman. Until that time, there was no chairman. Paley was president, and that was it. Paul was executive vice president. I was a vice president. Didn't have anything behind my vice presidency except “Vice President - General Executive.” At some point along the way, I was made -- I can't even think of the title now -- General Manager. When I was made General Manager, I thought there was recognition on the part of Frank White that I was to really run things in case of any trouble. Because this was well before the war was over. Joe Ream was never any problem. He would do what he normally would do as head of law. He had station relations. He had a number of areas that he did beautifully and kept me and Frank filled in. We just shared everything. It was as collegial as anything could have been.

Did that change when Paley came back? That system?