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she was an artist -- more a commercial artist than anything else. Jack Baragwanath was a petroleum engineer, I think. He kicked around the world and had amusing stories and experiences. I don't know when he married Neysa. They were living in a cottage in the Kiluna complex. He was very close to Bill, and yet Bill never looked on him as an equal. I think he looked upon him as not quite a servant, but somebody who was beholden to him, if you will. I never wanted to be in that relationship. If I had been treated that way or thought I had been treated that way, I think I would have broken the association. I wanted to be what I wanted to be. I didn't want to be coddled in any way, shape or form.

Do I understand it correctly that you sort of decided that you didn't want to have a social relationship with Mr. Paley? You decided you didn't want to take the relationship out of the office? In other words, it was your decision more than his?

Pure and simple. Shortly after I took the job, Bill married Babe. There were many gestures made by Babe to have social evenings and me be included. I couldn't have done that and done my job, number one. I wasn't that good in the sense that I had to spend a lot of time at my work in order to be on top of it. I was determined to be on top of it, because I didn't know what the hell I was doing. We saw each other from time to time, maybe at some business and an occasional social event. We were at Kiluna on a number of weekends, but certainly we didn't reach for it. When we did go, it was only because we felt there were certain times when it was -- not the decent thing -- the reasonable thing to do and we did it. We saw a lot of his friends and that life. It only reinforced our determination not to pursue that channel. Bill wanted me very much to take a part of Kiluna, which he offered to give me, and build a house on his property. For the reasons that I've already covered, Ruth and I decided we weren't going to do that.