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would have been the first officer of the company not to have been a graduate engineer. So it was a different culture completely than the advertising agency business.

I guess what I'm trying to get at partly is, was there anything that could have made you leave CBS after you'd been there through the thirties and forties?

The answer is no because if there had been I would have done it. I had good jobs offered to me in government, appointive jobs.

I was thinking of the Lyndon B. Johnson offer to you in 1964 to be Secretary of Health, Education and Welfare. Is that it?

Yes, I think he offered me three different cabinet posts. “Take your choice”, you know, it was that kind of thing. If you didn't want one, how about this? And we'd move people around and so forth.

Why wasn't that tempting?

He was a difficult man to work with. I saw him behave in a way toward some of his associates that I couldn't have tolerated. [Harry S.] Truman offered me a job. I was tempted. Eisenhower offered me a job and I almost took it.

What were those two jobs, just for the record? What did Truman offer you?