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I believe I stayed pretty close to the middle. My friendship with Johnson, which
was more from his side than from mine, did pull me closer to internal Democratic
deliberations. My friends on the Hill were, over the years, more Democratic than
Republican. That came about largely because the people with whom I had to deal on
legislation -- or essentially legislation were Democrats at that time. And I got to know them.
It was inevitable that you became friendly with these people because you saw them a lot and
you were trying to persuade them to a point of view. And so you spent a lot of time with
What was your relationship like with Nixon? Did you have any?
No. I don't know what the President or what President Nixon would say about it. I
think he knew that I was playing it as close to the middle as possible. I had miserable
experiences with some of his people, [Charles W.] Colson particularly. At the time, I got
caught up with my problems with the “Selling of The Pentagon” and things of that kind. I
guess I had more luck, if you will, with the Democratic side of the Hill than I did with the
Would you mind telling me how you voted in some of the presidential elections?
I voted for [Herbert H.] Hoover against Al [Alfred E.] Smith. That was my first
presidential vote. I voted for [Franklin D.] Roosevelt against Hoover. I voted for [Wendell]
Willkie against Roosevelt in the third -- I think in the third term. I'm not sure what I did on
Roosevelt in the fourth term. I believe I voted for him. I voted for Eisenhower. I voted for
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