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trying to drum up business either for clothes or for photo engraving.

But I was not looked upon with favor by the national fraternity for raising the question that I did. And when I resigned I was told I couldn't resign, that I had signed my name in blood and all that tomfoolery. And that I would always be a member and there was no way I could get out.

Sounds worse than the --

What?

Sounds worse than the Baptist church.

And I must've offended them to the point where they threw me out. And that didn't get settled until I got to New York after I was out of graduate school.

The disappointment to me was that there were seven or eight, maybe eight members of my class in the fraternity, and I sent copies of all the correspondence about this issue to the other members, to my classmates. Not to the upperclassmen, just to the ones that my -- same age, same class, the peer group that I was closest to. I think I got an acknowledgement from one and never heard from the others. They all turned their back. Even Dunham who marched in Alabama and in later years did a lot of things that were clearly on the liberal side, never left the fraternity. And so far as I know never took a strong stand with the national fraternity. It was a great disappointment with me.