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Anyway the year '29 and '30 when I took my degree, my undergraduate degree, was a disaster in terms of the economy. Ohio fell on very hard times. And there just weren't any -- I had been interviewed for a brokerage firm in Chicago -- Hallsey, I think, was the name of it. And been encouraged to think that all I had to do when I finished my degree was to get on the train and come to Chicago and I'd have a good job there. I was also, through the years, encouraged to think that I could work at Procter and Gamble. Then their headquarters were in Cincinnati. And the tire companies interviewed heavily in Delaware for kids and I think I was on the Goodyear list and the Goodrich list. But things just went steadily downhill.

And you couldn't even get jobs selling -- at that time a very popular house-to-house product was Real Silk Hosiery. I don't know whether you ever heard of it, even. But every college kid sold Real Silk Hosiery in the summertime because it was a high profit margin and door to door stuff. But even they weren't recruiting.

I did go back and do part-time work at the store. But there were no full-time jobs even available there and I had a pretty good track record there. I could've been on the selling floor. But that isn't what -- I didn't want to even spend the year selling clothes, although at that time you could still make pretty good money selling.

So I got a job teaching -- typography and mechanical drawing in a trade school -- what essentially was a trade school. It was a high school but more trades, more vocational course work than academic work. And that kept me in Dayton for eight or nine months. And by the end of the -- I was going to say the fall quarter -- by the end of the fall of that year, I knew that if I stayed in Dayton all I'd do would be to stay probably in teaching. And do part-time