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this kind of responsibility. Was that true?

I don't know of anybody else. Certainly there wasn't anybody else in that company. It was a large -- for Dayton -- it was the largest department store in the city. Exclusively men and boy's merchandise, not household appliances, things of that kind. But I helped run a fashion show for two years. I supervised a lot of photography, learned a lot about photography myself. I had pretty much a free run of what I wanted to do.

Did you know when you were working that that's what -- that you wanted to be in this kind of business, that advertising appealed to you?

Not particularly because when I began my undergraduate work I was a pre-medic so I was going in an entirely different direction.

Before we go to that, what was the situation like — were your parents supportive of you working at the Metropolitan -- being away from home? Did you experience any tensions with that?

I didn't have any trouble with them. I think they were just as -- as long as I wasn't in trouble -- I had very little parental supervision.

No, I had a ball when I was in high school. I made a lot of money as a kid. I made more money my senior year in high school, I believe, or certainly my freshman year in college, I made more money working at the store, twice as much per week as I did when I first joined CBS.