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younger brother who was six years younger-

And he was ill also.

And he had diabetes. Not at that period, though. Take that back. I guess I was eighteen when he was twelve, so it was just at the beginning of my days at Ohio Wesleyan.

Well, let's go to Ohio Wesleyan. And first of all, I would like to just ask you how you chose that. And how you also chose your pre-med curriculum. What led you to go to Ohio Wesleyan?

Well, first it was a mistake, as I look back on it. Has nothing to do with the school, directly. But I should have picked a different school because I didn't get a lot of the things that I wanted there. But I did have some friendships that had developed in high school that carried over into college. One man, or one boy, at that time, who was a year ahead of me, had a lot of influence on my going to Ohio Wesleyan. I thought he was I guess as close to a perfect model as anybody I knew --

And what was his name?

His name was Chadburn Donavan. And, come to think of it, I think I'd have a difficult time to try to say what were the qualities that made him that attractive to me. He was a brilliant student, strong much more an outdoors type, and much more an intellectual than certainly I ever was.