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the clear channels covered wide areas -- I could have told them that -- and that the coverage didn't necessarily follow or live up to the zones that the engineers drew on the map. It was a boondoggle because if they'd picked up the phone or come up to see me, I could have shown them much more than they ever got. But they did a postcard survey and they sent --they didn't even address the cards to the people who lived in the houses--they were boxholder and the stuff they sent out into the rural areas they just gave to rural route carriers to throw in the box. And they tabulated these findings. And they had not done the whole country, they just did -- Yes, they did the whole country. Anyway, the report came out. And most of the report was devoted to engineering factors, but part of it had to do with this post card survey. And for reasons I didn't understand then, somebody in the company got a copy of the report. Maybe it went to the Law Department, I don't know where it went -- but Kesten ended up with it. Kesten threw it down to me and said, “Give me an analysis of this and tell me what it means.” As I say, most of it had to do with engineering stuff which I didn't know a thing about. And when I saw the mail part of it that I could understand -- the postcard return stuff. But the engineering part I didn't know and I didn't want to go to the Engineering Department of CBS and admit I didn't know something, because I was a cocky young Ph.D.

Well, this was when you were first there, then? '36-'37.

Yes, the early days. Sure. So I thought, “What do I do if I don't know what this means?” And so I knew that there was an Electrical Engineering Department up at Columbia. So I got on the subway to go to Columbia and ended up in Van Cortland Park, I think. Because I didn't know the subway. And it took me a half a day to get back.

They didn't have maps at that time?