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think that the Rockefeller Foundation would make a grant to a commercial organization; and indeed they shouldn't have. We didn't hear from the Rockefeller Foundation for quite -- there was a perfunctory acknowledgement -- but no substantive reaction.

The man at the Rockefeller Foundation to whom we were making the proposal was John Marshall and John Marshall was very proper in his treatment of the applicant in the sense that he didn't give us any encouragement or discouragement. He acknowledged that he got it and that was it. I think Hadley was closer to him -- Well, certainly Hadley knew him, I didn't know him at all.

Meantime, Cantril got moved to -- got the offer to become a full professor at Princeton, and I think at that time he was even made chairman of the department, though that's not clear in my memory. But Hadley went to Princeton and in the meantime my career took off at CBS, and in the midst of all that, we got word that the grant had been given.

And how much was the grant for?

I think at that time $75,000, which would be--

Good grant.

Would be $750,000 today. And Cantril and I said, now what do we do? Because each of us was up to our chin in our own programs. And we went to see Marshall and said -- Cantril had his plate full as chairman of the department at Princeton. I told him I was deeply engaged in work at CBS and I doubted I had the time to give to it, but would he stand