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Excuse me.

[END OF SIDE ONE, TAPE ONE; BEGINNING OF SIDE TWO, TAPE ONE]

Okay.

When the war was over, I brought Bud Wilson into CBS and made him Director of Research. So these things just cross back and forth all the time.

Can you go back a little bit to Paul Lazarsfeld, and his work? What do you think made the Rockefeller Foundation interested in radio research to begin with? Why would they give so much money for that? I mean, they weren't so interested in the commercial aspects. What were they interested in?

I'm afraid I can't answer that because -- John Marshall -- and I think this is fair to say about most steady directors of foundations, unless there's a sharp focus of the foundation, project heads in the foundations are interested in a lot of different things that are going on, especially new things. And I think it's to John Marshall's credit that he took an interest in this particular -- It wasn't because of Paul Lazarsfeld, because Paul wasn't on the scene. Cantril was a very bright star and a very attractive person, had a lot of charm, and I'm sure has a lot to do with getting the grant in the sense that John Marshall liked him. John Marshall didn't know me at all. And I think I was a philistine in his eyes because I was, you know, Madison Avenue; not only because I was involved in advertising but I'm not sure that