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see if I could come up with some ideas, but I just didn't have the time to give to it. And I don't want to go into it now, because that's a whole other part of my life, but that goes back to Paul. And I never participated in his -- when he crossed the line and went over into mathematics -- I had no interest and I had no confidence in that field. And while Paul and I saw each other and we talked about a lot of things, we never talked the sheer mathematics. I wasn't -- I couldn't sit up to the table.

Then, out of that relationship, during the war developed a relationship with Bob [Robert M.] Merton, who was very close to Paul. We took Bob to Washington to work in the Bureau of Applied -- or not in the Bureau of Intelligence or in the OWI, polling, and Merton just couldn't make it down there. And Paul took him back to Columbia. This was as a volunteer, it wasn't a military job. And that association was very close. Bob and Herta -- or not Herta -- Bob and Paul's third wife, I can't recall her name right now -- they became very close, and I don't know what ever happened, why -- do you know Bob Merton at all?

No.

Do you know who he is?

I know who he is.

Well, in many ways he's the strongest person, I think, that Sociology ever turned out at Columbia, although Bob Lynd was a big name. But I don't think Bob was a graduate student there, I think Bob came in from Harvard. But Merton left his wife and I know that Paul had a hand in that because he was always nagging Bob about his wife. And I still think