Session: 1234567891011121314151617         Page 140141142143144145146147148149150151152153154155156157158159160161162163164165166167168169170171172173174175176177178179 of 755

a lot to the talent. Sullivan was a very powerful person -- like Walter Winchell had been earlier -- although Sullivan was much more tilted toward Broadway than Walter Winchell was. Walter was much more on the cafe society side. But Ed Sullivan had a column that dealt with Broadway personalities and people would turn cartwheels to be plugged in his column. And we had no money for television. And we had a naked Sunday night to fill. A man, I think, by the name of [] Churchill, who was working in the Programming Department of the television network division, or somebody else on his staff, came up with the idea: Why don't we invite Ed Sullivan to bring his radio interview program in effect over to television. So instead of just having stars in to talk, bring them on as an act. They'll all do it for peanuts because he'll plug them in his column. And that goes across the country and he can get anybody he wants. And he can get them for scale. He couldn't get them for free but he got them for the minimum union scale. And so we said, Why not? We had, I think, thirteen weeks in the summer where we didn't have a program for that time period, and said, Let's try him out. Not on a pilot as they would today, but try him out right, you know, in public.

Those were the exciting times, weren't they?

Sure. And how much did the program cost? Time, talent, everything -- fifteen thousand dollars. Now, I sold it to Emerson Electric in the Hampshire House in the apartment of one of the executives, I guess the CEO of Emerson Electric. Begged him on my hands and knees to try their luck in television. They hadn't been in television and they were in the -- I think they made television sets and electric appliances and electric fans and things of that kind. And I remember saying to the man, “This is only a thirteen week commitment.” I didn't know whether we wanted it any longer than that, but I didn't tell him. But in those