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thirteen weeks, Sullivan took off.

And Paley said to me, “Why do we have this terrible show in there on Sunday night?”

Really?

Because Sullivan had no personality -- well, he had a personality but it was all negative.

I remember him very well. He was very --

Sure. Remember, he used to --

--key to me in growing up.

And the Hollywood people, who were beginning to feel their position potentially in television, were saying to Paley: Why do you have this dog show on Sunday night when you could have -- NBC I think had -- was it Caesar? No. I've forgotten who it was. Anyway, they had a much better show. And this was sort of a dog kind of experiment. We were at the bottom of the barrel. And so when it began to take off, we kept it in. And of course it got better and better and we got -- and then Sullivan wanted more money, and the acts wanted more money, and we got more money from the advertisers, and so it just kept going. I don't know how many years. It was seventeen years or something in that time period. And it became the thing to do on Sunday night. Well, now once you have that in your schedule, then you could put a show behind it that was a new untried program that you wanted to expose,