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because people are lazy -- once they've stayed with Sullivan and the next thing came up before they could turn the knob --

This is before remote control.

Exactly. This is before remote control. You could expose another program. And so you had these anchor points, you could go up to them with new things, and you could follow them with new things. And we had one of those on every night of the week. So that became a strategy for how you build a night. And if somebody had come to us with a very, very hot idea or program, and wanted to put it in one of those periods, I'm sure we would have been willing to negotiate and see what we could do. But Sullivan came into that time period really out of desperation. And continued to be a very, very strong factor in television for a long, long time.

There were nights when he didn't have the highest rating. But look at what he -- he introduced the Beatles. You know, all the shows, all the talent --

He introduced talent to America. That's where we turned on Sunday nights to see what was happening.

Certainly. And that was a place talent wanted to be showcased. I went to Europe with him one summer. We didn't go together but our paths crossed in Brussels when he was negotiating for some things. European acts, vaudeville acts from Europe, they didn't want to come here unless they got on “The Ed Sullivan Show”. He was that powerful.