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Among its historic broadcasts, of course, was the 1954 Joseph [R.] McCarthy report. Was that generated by Friendly, or Friendly and Murrow together, and how long was that in the making?

I don't know where that germ first came from. These were the Siamese twins in many ways, Ed and Fred, because they were producing week in and week out, a very distinguished half hour, and one would infect the other with ideas. So I don't know, and I'm not sure I've ever seen anything in writing -- maybe you have -- saying which of the two really came up with the idea of taking “Hear It Now” into television. It could have been as simple as their agent suggesting that this would be a good property to put into video. But as far as the McCarthy thing was concerned, it was so much in the news that they couldn't neglect it. They simply had a way of presenting it that stripped the man of any pretensions and showed you the true guy.

Now, in a sense, that was an editorial judgement that was made. And Ed and Fred collected a lot of footage on McCarthy, waiting for that particular news peg to give them the opportunity to make the presentation. When they thought they had enough to do it, you know, they did it without -- there was no prior consultation with me or with Paley on that.

That's what I was going to ask.

It was a very hot subject for all media at that time, print as well as broadcast. My recollection of it is that on the Tuesday that they proposed to do the broadcast, Ed called me after having tried to reach Paley, to set up a meeting with the two of us. I believe the meeting was scheduled for four o'clock in the afternoon. And they came up and met, not in