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carrying a big black loose leaf binder, put it down on the table and said, “This is what I want to talk about.” And quickly said that the foundation had agreed to spend X million dollars to launch the Center. And because I had been identified with the early discussions about it and so forth, he wanted me to consider taking a chairmanship.

I was right on the diving board about ready to, not dive, but to fall into the pool of getting television going, and I said, “No way. I just couldn't pick up that kind of responsibility.” And he said, “Well, we've done a lot of the staffing, we've made a study of where the Center can be located. We'll give you all the help you need, and so forth. And this is something that represents an earlier interest -- “ And the more he talked, the more I said okay, I'll do it.

Were you still in contact with Paul Lazarsfeld enough at this point to know that he would make this proposal?

To know what?

Were you still in contact with Paul Lazarsfeld enough to know that this proposal would be handed to you?

Oh, yes. Sure. In fact, I talked about it with him afterwards. Oh, no, I mean we -- I don't mean that we --

No. You just didn't see each other as much.

You're quite right -- we didn't have our Sunday morning coffee and so forth, but --