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oh no, Paul was in and out of my life and vice versa. But with a lot of friends -- I don't have a lot of friends, but with those friends that I have -- we have periods of intense association, and each of us knows that if the other one needs me or vice versa, it's a telephone call or a quick drink or something, so you pick up just as though there hadn't been anything in between. I expect this is no different pattern than a lot of people have, except that this is the way your life develops and there are periods when you have intense associations and unless they dissolve in tears and bitterness, which mine didn't, or if there were tears and bitterness I didn't know about it, so you'd -- Well, this telephone call this morning was exactly that kind of a call. So, yes, Paul knew about it, wanted me to understand that the proposal that I was considering wasn't the way it should be done, he had a lot of ideas about it. And I said I wanted to sit and talk with the proposed board, some of whom had already been contacted and indicated their willingness to serve.

We had our first board meeting at the Ford Foundation, and were off and running.

Could you just say a bit what the proposal was, specifically?

Well, the proposal was to assemble up to fifty scholars for a year of collegial relationships without the structure or program to be determined by the board of trustees. And we had on the board, on the proposed board, Paul Buck, who was provost of Harvard; Frosty Hill (F. F. Hill, I guess were his initials, but Frosty was the way I knew him), who was the provost at Cornell; we had Ted [Theodore O.] Yntema, an economist of considerable reputation who, I believe, had just gone to the Ford Motor Company as their -- maybe even their chief financial officer, I'm not sure.