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And he said, well -- in effect -- this isn't a precise quote, but what he said was -- Until tonight, I wasn't sure I was going to support him. I'm a Democrat and I would have done the right thing but I wasn't going to really go all out and help. Now I'm going to put Cook County behind him.

And so that was about all I remember of that particular night. I know I went out to the airport and got on a plane and came back to New York.

It's an incredible story.

It was an interesting evening.

I guess it was before the first debate although I'm not sure -- no, it was in the primary. It was in the primary. He was running in Wisconsin against [Hubert H.] Humphrey -- this is Kennedy -- and there was a lot of -- there was, not a lot, there was some talk about the importance or the effect of the Catholic issue as far as the campaign was concerned. There was also considerable talk about the role of labor in the campaign, because Humphrey had a lot of strong labor support. I came up with the idea -- and this was because Roper and I were very close (that was another job that I had been offered early on, was to become partners with him) -- But because I knew Elmo and could trust him, and also knew that we could get the information quickly, we picked some counties that were predominantly labor, and some counties that were predominantly Catholic, and some counties that were middle of the road in Wisconsin, and did intensive polling to find out whether you could see the reflection of the Catholicism on the one hand and the labor on the other. And then we had a benchmark