Session: 1234567891011121314151617         Page 323324325326327328329330331332333334335336337338339340341342343344345346347348349350351352353354355356357358359360361362363364 of 755

-- incumbent

-- incumbent, he wasn't going to lower himself to debate some jerk who wanted his job. Jack went out of his way when he was thanking me about the debate to say that he would debate because he thought things would be so tough for him in the next campaign, that only by debating could he establish himself. And he said, “Don't pay any attention to what Bobby said to Roscoe Drummond because I'm telling you now that I will debate.” And I took advantage of that and I said, “Can I get you to tell John [O.] Pastore” who was chairman of the subcommittee in the Senate, who had the legislation under his wing, “that you will support a permanent lifting of Section 315 so that we don't have to go through this temporary resolution to have debates the next time?”

He said, “Absolutely. You tell him that you talked to me and that I'll support it. And have him call me.”

So it was that kind of a warm meeting. Then, following that, of course, Dean Rusk did call me. And I had long talks with him about people and so forth and had to straighten him out, that he wasn't going to make the appointment, that it was a Presidential appointment, and that the guy wasn't going to be reporting to him. Dean Rusk just didn't know that at all.

Were you shocked at his lack of information?

What?